In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz
on Tue, 25 Apr 2006 07:52:19 +0100
> __/ [ The Ghost In The Machine ] on Tuesday 25 April 2006 05:00 \__
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Roy Schestowitz
>> on Tue, 25 Apr 2006 02:01:48 +0100
>>> __/ [ The Ghost In The Machine ] on Tuesday 25 April 2006 01:00 \__
>>>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Chris Wilkinson
>>>> on Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:51:29 +1000
>>>>> Hi there,
>>>>> DFS wrote:
>>>>>> A card game, a radio stream playing, a Gimp session, an Xgl script
>>>>>> being edited, and 5 transparent windows rendering the system almost
>>>>>> Linux: for when you get tired of real work
>>>>> So this single screenshot represents all Linux has to offer huh?
>>>>> We're you any less intelligent you'd have to be dead...
>>>> Don't be too hard on DFS. No doubt he is still working
>>>> on how to get his advance copy of Windows Vista. :-)
>>>> (Not to mention hardware running it. :-) )
>>>> Personally, I am not at all sure how best to show Linux. Is it:
>>>> - the X screenshots showing a fairly straightforward but not all that
>>>> exciting desktop?
>>>> - the X screenshots showing that desktop remotely?
>>>> - the ability to remote login using SSH?
>>>> - the ability to remote login using SSH and open X windows in
>>>> one's local server from the remote box?
>>>> - the ability to remote login using SSH and use XNest to largely
>>>> clone the functionality of rdesktop or VNC?
>>>> - copy and paste using nothing but mouse buttons (no menus, either)?
>>>> - the results of running 'uptime', showing more than a year in
>>>> many cases?
>>>> - the results of running UML, dosemu, or VmWare? UML in particular
>>>> eventually pops up 6 xterms, with 'login: ' prompts. Exciting?
>>>> Probably not.
>>>> - UT2004? (Runs very well on Linux. I can't tell the diff, except
>>>> maybe in frame rate.)
>>>> - Nexuiz? (Strange but very playable freeware 3D shootemup. Runs
>>>> on both platforms.)
>>>> - Crystal Space? (3D game platform which runs on both platforms.)
>>>> - Various Xgl demos, which I consider useless but show off Xgl
>>>> very well?
>>>> - loadable modules? The best one might hope for here is another
>>>> prompt from the shell. The excitement comes later.
>>>> - NFS, AFS, or CIFS/SMB remote host mounts?
>>>> - /proc?
>>>> - network packet traces showing Linux totally ignoring incoming
>>>> virus attacks?
>>>> - an open email window showing a known virus-laden message safely?
>>>> - an open browser window showing a known virus-laden webpage safely?
>>>> - an open browser window showing streaming video?
>>>> - OpenOffice loading Excel, Word, or Powerpoint files?
>>>> - OpenOffice *saving* Excel, Word, or Powerpoint files?
>>>> - an X screensaver showing various crash emulations, including
>>>> an Amiga GURU, the Mac bomb, and the infamous Blue Screen?
>>>> - IBM commercials of a rather strange basketball game?
>>>> - something totally different?
>>>> Transparent windows aren't that exciting to me, though they're nice.
>>> I really like your list, which in its own right is a 'shopping list'
>>> acting as a power features list. Just remember that to Joe Average, who
>>> might be considering Ubuntu (Linux for Human Beings), the most digestable
>>> presentation and case study will be visual. It requires no verbal
>>> explanation or annotation. Also, it is very memorable.
>>> SSH with X is something that has been around for so many years. Its
>>> novelty probably worn out, at least in some users' minds. That said, not
>>> all platforms can achieve the same thing, yet. An embarrassment if you ask
>>> me, which is the result of bad separation between user-facing modules and
>>> underlying processes.
>> Well, that's part of the problem. Most of the above have to do
>> with function. A pretty graphical interface is more form.
>> A well-functioning Linux system is well-nigh invisible. That's
>> not exciting, now, is it? It just works, like a well-tuned engine.
> In my mind, there persists this image of a so-called 'command-line machine'
> without a monitor and Apache serving files for several years without
> abatement. That's not too exciting though, is it? It doesn't appear like
> state-of-the-art demoware.
>> Now contrast that to Windows Vista capabilities, which, um...hmm,
>> the only one I can think of is a virtual search folder. Whoopee.
> If the idea is anything like search folders in Thunderbird, then you could
> easily achieve this with a one liner nesting find, grep, ln (choose hard or
> soft link for extra flexibility) and some brute force/time. Linux has
> indexing, too. This can speed things up and help enrich the searches, which
> extract additional information and embedded metadata.
>> Wiki to the rescue! There's a lot of things in Vista, among them
>> the Aero GUI, improved searching technology, new security features,
>> peer-to-peer home networking technology, WinFX (based on .NET),
>> Virtual PC technology, and over one thousand other features and
>> technologies. The most visible might be desktop gadgets; these are
>> things such as clocks and weather displays, apparently. (These
>> look like a response to Yahoo!'s widgets.)
>> And if one believes that....well, anyway, this sounds a little strange
>> to me personally. It may depend on when this article was written.
>> Oh, and the "Start" menu is now a pearl with a flag in it. Well,
>> that's one improvement, I guess.
> Have a look at the following screenshots...
Nice, though a bit on the big side icon-wise. I'm assuming the clock
and the weather are gadgets of some sort.
I'm never too sure about transparent windows, and this one has similar
problems to the Vista interface. I'm assuming the transparency is
adjustable and in any event it's at least pretty. :-)
> Some reminiscent stuff in GNOME:
Interesting style. The icons look nice enough but that
gray background will definitely throw some people. :-)
But it's very straightforward.
(I'm assuming the background color is adjustable.
Unfortunately I'm getting some weird readings on Gnome
themes; apparently they are implemented as shared libraries
in /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.4.0/engines .)
> (I think I saw these icons in Longhorn)
Now this one's a little odd. Which window is the active one? The one
window has grayed-out title bar but white-on-blue menustrip; the other
has a black-on-gray title bar and very hard to see black-on-blue
The icons themselves...I dunno about the colored
balls/discs. The folders look reasonable. What does the
mountain oozing something signify on the bottom? Also,
the trash can looks a bit too much like a battery.
(Admittedly, I can't draw worth beans. :-) )
>> One of the more interesting capabilities is the Aero
>> window switcher; apparently the windows can be tilted into
>> the display. Too bad for Windows Xgl can apparently do
>> that now.
> Yes, it can. It's too easy to implement once you have the more generic engine
> running. Frankly, window zooming in XGL is more useful as an overview. The
> tilt and mutual hiding among the cascading windows is unhelpful.
>> Virtual PC looks mildly interesting but VmWare has been
>> able to do this for awhile.
>> So I dunno; I don't see a lot of value here but then I
>> know about Linux. Joe Average might think it gorgeous --
>> if he has enough machine to run it, which among other
>> things requires, maybe:
>> - a DVD reader.
>> - Pentium D 820 or 830
>> - 3D capability
>> - 1 GB RAM
>> - 120 GB hard drive
>> Others suggest
>> - 512 MB RAM
>> - 32 MB VRAM
>> - dedicated graphics card (none of that integrated stuff)
>> but the more RAM the merrier, as always.
>> suggests 256 MB VRAM, if I'm reading it correctly. What
>> a great Christmas present -- except the OS won't be quite
>> ready for December.
> The month they currently aim for is February. If they refuse to procrastinate
> further, the end product may be improperly tested and rely on many updates.
> 60% of the code needs to be re-written for a reason. But look at the bright
> side: updates in Vista will not require a reboot.
Hmm...neither do updates in Linux now, except for changing out
the entire kernel, and I am given to understand there's a
project in work (kexec()?).
But never mind that; Vista's great, isn't it? :-)
>> If his system won't run Vista...well, there's always
>> RedHat, Knoppix, SuSE, or Debian. :-) (Gentoo if he's
>> feeling adventurous. I like it, but it's a slightly
>> tricky distro.)
> Best wishes,
Windows Vista. Because it's time to refresh your hardware. Trust us.