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Re: Microsoft: IE7 Can't Match Oprea or Firefox (Standards-wise)

  • Subject: Re: Microsoft: IE7 Can't Match Oprea or Firefox (Standards-wise)
  • From: "nessuno@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx" <nessuno@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: 17 Aug 2006 05:05:19 -0700
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Oliver Wong wrote:
> <nessuno@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1155745520.068780.23650@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > Erik cited this same guy's blog a few days ago to support the notion
> > that Microsoft is dedicated to standards compliance and is doing the
> > reasonable thing (I think that's why he cited it).  The way this story
> > has developed, it shows exactly the opposite, and is very revealing
> > about sentiments out there in the developer world.
>
>     I don't know about Microsoft, but the guy himself seems to be dedicated
> to standards compliance:
>
> http://blogs.msdn.com/cwilso/archive/2006/08/15/701894.aspx
> <quote>
> This post is about me. Please do not post comments about Microsoft's
> behavior in response to this post.
> [...]
> There's a lot of anger aimed at Microsoft, in particular around IE.  A lot
> of it comes out in comments, here and in the IEBlog.  A lot of the
> frustration behind it is certainly justified, though being frustrated at me
> personally is not. I try very hard never to take it personally, and usually
> succeed.  I occasionally let blatant inaccuracies piss me off, and then I
> can get pretty pissy in tone in reply.  (The inaccuracies are frequently the
> result of anti-Microsoft sentiment to begin with, compounded with the last
> five years of web browser non-feature-development.) Too many people read
> that as "typical Microsoft arrogance", which frankly pisses me off all the
> more, because I've personally railed against Microsoft arrogance for longer
> than most of you have been involved in the web. (Yes, really. I started
> working on IE in 1995. I know many of you were working on the web prior to
> that, but I doubt the majority were.)
> [...]
> Few of you believe it - occasionally, someone who knows me really well
> does - but I actually believe in open standards.  Real open standards.  The
> ones built by a group of people with an interest in making the world better,
> not just in their own private vested interests. I've championed that in one
> way or another since I joined Microsoft, and I continue to do so today. It's
> been a hard road, but not one I can imagine myself not choosing to walk
> down. It's been gratifying to me over the past couple of years to see my
> championing pay off in the change of direction in Microsoft. It's been
> frustrating, though, to be continually identified as the personal screw-up
> responsible for IE not supporting more standards today, when it's actually
> because of my personal influence that CSS is IMPLEMENTED in IE.
> </quote>
>
>     - Oliver

I don't see anything in any of the posts here either above or below
yours, to change my impression that this guy is in favor of standards
compliance, but Microsoft management has been against it.  Perhaps the
best thing you can say about Microsoft management is that perhaps they
have partially changed their mind and that things will be better in the
future.

Of course the lack of standards compliance makes developers angry, but
not necessary users.  In fact, it can work the opposite way, when web
designers create noncompliant sites that work with IE but not with
Firefox.  This of course has been the point of Microsoft management's
policies, and I think there can be no doubt that it goes right back to
Gates, considering the prominence of this issue in Microsoft history
and Gates' personal involvement in the DOJ case (giving testimony,
etc).

I have an old friend who worked as a tech writer for Apple for many
years.  His son-in-law was part of the Netscape team, and later AOL,
working on their browser.  His story was how Microsoft made IE accept
sites that were out of spec, so Netscape, which respected specs, would
look broken when used with them.  This is an old story, but it's the
kind of story that has been going around silicon valley and other
places for a long time, and contributes greatly to the animus against
Microsoft.


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