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On 2006-06-19, Ruel Smith spake thusly:
> Roy Schestowitz spewed this vial garbage:
>
>> Why hasn't Linux made it mainstream on the desktop?
>
><complete honesty from a certified Linux nut>
Gratuitous Namecalling.
> Lack of public awareness - There isn't a single company promoting Linux on
> the home desktop to the mass public. Just watch the Superbowl, FIFA World
> Cup, World Series, NBA playoffs, Stanley Cup playoffs, or whatever other
> major sporting event, as well as any of your favorite television shows and
> pay attention to the commercials.
Linux dosen't get sports airtime because it's not a commericial product,
Suse and Redhat not withstanding. Linux isn't a for profit or Intellectual
property protected operating system. The only limitations on the use of Linux
are those spelled out in the GPL.
Commercially distributed and/or customized systems such as Redhat Enterprise
edition exist because of this fact, and are designed for corporate clients
who don't need advertising to convince them they should use it. Home Distro's
*are* available on the shelves at major computer retail franchises such as Fry's
electronics.
Nonetheless, the bottom line is that FOSS in and of itself isn't a
cash flow engine.
Media Market Saturation does not flourish without it.
> NOWHERE, and I mean NOWHERE will you find
> a commercial pushing Linux onto the desktop of the home computer. Not even
> G4TV nor the former TechTV had Linux advertisement. Not Red Hat, Novell,
> Linspire, Ubuntu, Mandriva, or anyone. Pick up any major magazine that
> isn't Linux based. It's void of any home desktop Linux promotion at all.
> The general public simply is unaware of the choice. If they have heard of
> it, they've heard about how 'techie' it is and want no part of it.
Why do you equate commercial airtime with the viability of an OS to meet
the needs of a user? The two have nothing to do with each other.
> Lack of a major OEM installing and promoting preinstalled Linux - Sure, you
> can get preinstalled Linux at Walmart's website, but it won't be a Dell,
> Gateway, eMachines, or whatever major brand you've actually heard of. Not
> even HP, who has a major steak in Linux, pushes it on the mass public and
> offers it preinstalled at a major retailer. Some major brands like Dell, I
> believe, once offered it years ago, but buried the option deep and it was
> pretty much ignored. And what if they did offer it? What if they offered
> Red Hat, but you like Suse, Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, Slackware, Gentoo, or
> Mandriva? Do you see the dilemma OEMs face with preinstalling Linux?
That's "stake". Pushing a product on the public is a good thing? Why?
Anyway, Linux is an alternative, not a replacement, to other OS's. OEM's
don't pre-install Windows because they especially like it, they do it
because their license agreement with MS requires it. Without the MS
blessing, they would lose their bulk licensing and the cost of the
machines would go through the roof. This effectively means that
pre-installing is nothing more than a business decision. One brought
about by an artificial supply and demand cycle created by
MS.
Incidentally, MS is losing their grip on the OEM's. For example, Dell
recently announced plans to begin production of front line desktops
preinstalled with Linux.
Not that it really matters. I mean who cares whether or not you, or
anyone else, uses Linux, or Windows, or RS COCO. Good lord, when are
people going to realize that the only thing that matters is whether or
not it works for you. Just because I happen to think it's very cool,
and use it for everything, dosen't even come close to the idea that
everyone, or for that matter, anyone, should feel the same about it.
Who cares?
> How many people actually install their OS? - Really? I mean most users never
> install an OS. They use what comes on the computer and many upgrade the
> computer when a new version of Windows comes out. My ex-girlfriend called
> me up telling me how screwed up here computer is. I asked her what was
> wrong and she replied that she needs a new computer. I asked what it was
> doing and she said some debugging thing comes up and she gets lots of
> errors (Windows XP Home). I asked why she needed a new computer when it was
> a Windows problem and a wipe/reinstall would fix everything. Her response
> was that she was just going to go get another computer. This is the typical
> mentality of the mass public.
More accurately, this is the mindset ingrained into people by the
marketing of MS. Really. I'm not a basher, it's just a fact. MS has
spent alot of time and money convincing people of the mysteries of
the OS, and how the mere mortal could never begin to devine them. They have
also invested considerable time in convincing people that any problem
couldn't possibly be related to their current version of windows. The
problem is obviously nothing short of refusing to upgrade to the latest
windows version, and/or replacing the computer. As unbelievable as it may
seem, many people actually believe that the only way to rid themselves of
malware is to buy a new computer. I suspect your girlfriend may be able
to benefit from a bit of dialog on the suject.
As far as installing OS's, it may be more than you imagine. But I think
you are correct. Many people don't want choice, they just want to email and
write letters, which is fine, and makes Windows a good choice for them.
But it isn't everybody, and worldwide, it's not even the majority.
> Too many options - Sure, as a Linux user, I love and relish the freedom to
> choose and the multitude of choices I have. However, the mass public wants
> nothing to do with it.
Choice? I think most people very much value their right to choice. Whether
to buy Coors or Bud - Chevy or Ford. The right to decide whether or not
to ride the train to work. Etc.
In this case the choice is how much automation is involved in the use of
the computer, with increased automation equaling increased limitations.
This is the choice people get to make and it's good that they have it.
> They just want to turn it on, get some emails, surf
> the net, play some games, and maybe write a paper and balance their
> checkbook. Hey, Windows came with the computer, it does the job, and it's
> works fine. That's the way they see it.
Yup. It sometimes boils down to that. The only caveat are the issues of
security and to a lesser extent, reliablility. Both _are_ a problem with
Windows.
> Poor perception of Linux - Let's face it, though I'm quite far from a geek,
> myself, Linux is seen as a geek's plaything, for anyone that's actually
> even heard of it. It also is seen as not quite ready for prime time. Many
> people feel as if it still has too many rough edges - and it honestly does.
> Many would-be Linux users have, in their own stupidity, ruined their WinXP
> installation, wiped their hard drives clean, completely botched
> installations, or had unsupported hardware or ACPI problems they couldn't
> address. With their "I know all about computers" ego, they wrongfully
> assumed that they knew what they were doing with a completely different OS
> and screwed everything up, blamed Linux, and will never touch it again. Not
> Linux's fault, but it sure puts a bad taste in some people's mouths.
We can help them with this. Thats what advocation is. Education. In addition,
I wouldn't be so fast to declare Linux unfit for use by new users since live
cd's like Knoppix make a good cup of instant coffee for them to try. It's
excellent, and easy.
It's also a mistake to attribute problems to clumsy inept users. Much of the
problem, sad to say, is the software they are trying to use.
> Lack of 3rd party hardware support - It's getting better, but how many want
> to easily use their 5.1 Surround Sound, 7 button laser mice, multimedia
> keyboard, or whatever only to find OSS drivers don't give them the options
> or complete support for their hardware? Or maybe they don't have a clue how
> to setup these items.
I have a Yamaha DS-XG audio processor card. It supports 2 channel Sigmatel
3D, 3D surround, 4 channel Sigmatel surround sound, Dolby 5.1, mix,
digital input and output, fiber optic I/O support, and more. Fedora 3 came
standard with the driver for it, YMF744, and detected it immediately, setting
it up. It was fully supported straight away, and Kmix pulled up a panel with
all the card settings and options automatically. This card is actually fairly
old even as heavy duty as it is, which also speaks well for Linux.
> Poor advice - How many Linux users are out there pointing new users to
> Ubuntu, Slackware, or Fedora? Really...these aren't for the new user. With
> some help, someone could install and setup Ubuntu, but how many new users
> have someone they can turn to for help? Sure...there are Wikis and forums,
> but the average Windows user knows someone at work or school that knows
> more about Windows than they do and that can help. How about the new Linux
> user? He's in isolation without the net, and many don't even know where to
> start.
>
> No advice - How many people have asked a question in a Linux group, only to
> be pounced upon because they top posted? Or have been ignored because they
> weren't aware they needed to provide more info, when they often don't even
> know where to go to get the info? How many were subjected to rude, arrogant
> Linux techies that look down their noses to someone who hasn't quite
> grasped the concept? It happened to me many times when I first started
> using Linux. I visited a Red Hat channel on a chat server to get help, and
> when the person was going down the wrong path to find my answer, obviously
> not understanding my question or something, and I tried to steer them in
> the right direction, they lashed out at me saying (I'm not making this up),
> "How dare you tell me what the problem is. I work for Red Hat as a support
> person. Do you want help or not?". I persevered despite this type of
> treatment. But how many don't bother?
That's too bad. There are those who feel themselves "seasoned" users and
are a certain breed of snob, but you find that with any OS or any group
of people for that matter. If you choose to judge an OS by a user(s) I
think you are using a flawed criteria.
As for looking for help, I do not, nor have I ever, maintained that new
users are somehow incapable of learning about Linux without the guidance
of the "experts". I think we all need to make sure we give others
the benefit of not being considered inept straight away.
> Linux is splintered - There is simply no way for someone fresh to make sense
> of it all. How many LiveCD/DVD distros are there? How many retail distros?
> How many community based distros? How many different package management
> systems? How many different installation methods? What? 20,000 packages
> available? Do I _need_ that many? What do I need them for? It's confusing
> to the new user...
>
> Broken websites and other Windows-centric items - FlashPlayer 8 not
> available for Linux, yet. Acrobat Reader 7 took forever to get to Linux.
> How many times have you run into a website that has a 3D application that
> refuses to load? Or have a website tell you that you don't have FlashPlayer
> or Java installed, despite the fact that you do? I mean, it works fine in
> Windows for most people.
I know what you mean there. I still haven't gotten FireFox to play
media files for me by clicking on a link. But it's a minor annoyance
compared to the security afforded me by this superior browser. I also
like the abundance of free plug-ins and extensions that you can auto
install with a click on the tools menu.
As for flash - I hate it. It's the junk food of the net. It hopelessly
bloats/screws up web pages and access to them.
I have *never* had a problem with Java, or any kind of scripting, including
Javascript. Even flash, again, although I hate it, works much better than I
would like it to. Scripting works so well that I installed the firefox
"NoScript" extension to control rampant scripting. It's amazing how much of
the stuff is used on the web, and how much ad time you can eliminate without
it.
> Familiarity - Windows is familiar. Linux is foreign. Enough said.
Depending on where you hail from. In the U.S. certainly, people are familiar
with Windows.
> Favorite apps - Everyone has them. I love Photoshop. Some people can't bear
> to be without them. If it isn't available in Linux, despite some pretty
> good alternatives, people just won't bite.
This is often true. Windows definitely has the largest supply of *commercial*
consumer software available, but OSX is closing that gap quickly. As people
become more aware of Linux, and as a result FOSS, they will find that
there are few if any consumer closed source software apps that don't
have excellent equivalents in FOSS. A good example is Kstars; My Mead
telescope came with windows software for interfacing a laptop. Only
Windows. Bummer. But a user here steered me to Kstars and it not only
is a great tool for astronomy study and planetarium style viewing, it
also has interface support for a multitude of telescopes. There are also
far more active OSS projects and programs than there are in the commercial
community.
> This was just off the top of my head. I'm sure I can come up with a few
> more. Listen... I love Linux. I use Linux 95% of my computing time. I
> advocate everyone try it. However, let's be honest with ourselves. You
> don't have to even answer back in the newsgroup, but take a moment to
> yourself and objectively see how true much of what I wrote is. Truth hurts.
Forgive the criticism, but you sound like someone using reverse tactics.
You present yourself as a supporter and proceed to attack that which you
claim to advocate.
A while back I did a comparison of OSX, Windows and Linux. I am a former
Windows user, and a current OSX and Linux user. I was careful to be completely
objective about all three since it is obvious to anyone that has spent any
time with more than one OS than no one OS is perfect. I spent quite a
bit of time giving pro's and con's and relating them to each other. This
takes time and effort. That is honesty. It does not harm. It educates.
Regards,
Mathew
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