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Re: Digg spurns Google for young Microsoft ..

Verily I say unto thee, that waterskidoo spake thusly:
> On 2007-07-28, [H]omer <spam@xxxxxxx> wrote:

>> You mean apart from the many Microsoft Shills in this group?
> 
> I think I see maybe 5 at most and I wouldn't call them shills unless
> they are being compensated which I doubt.

See below.

>> Digg is overflowing with Windows zealots, as is Yahoo! Answers, and
>> Dell IdeaStorm.
> 
> I'm new to digg so I can't say for sure, I've never used Yahoo!
> Answers but Dell sells Windows computers, for the most part, what
> would you expect people to be talking about?

On a post requesting support for Linux, I would expect people to be
talking about Linux ... naturally. As I said (Ref: the Panasonic
analogy), either one agrees and adds their support, or isn't interested
and just leaves well enough alone. Anything else is sabotage.

You should really get up to speed with the Dell IdeaStorm issue, it
sounds like you don't even know what it is.

>> That last one in particular is an extremely good example of how 
>> prevalent, intrusive and aggressive Windows Shills are. If Linux
>> users wish to ask for Linux support from a manufacturer, then no
>> one has the right to sabotage that effort, but that is exactly what
>> the Windows Shills on IdeaStorm attempted (and thankfully failed)
>> to do.
> 
> Any links? That sounds interesting.

This was all headline news last year. I assumed everyone knew, but
apparently not:

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/61771/PreInstalled_Linux__Ubuntu__Fedora__OpenSUSE__MultiBoot

It's a vast thread, and has no clickable links to individual comments.
If you have the stamina and patience, I recommend reading it all, and
note how quickly in the thread the Shills appear (starting comment #3).

Let me reiterate ... IdeaStorm is not an advocacy forum or a place for
debate of any kind, it is merely a place for Dell customers, or
potential customers, to make requests for things they'd like to buy. The
Windows Shills seemed to think otherwise.

And here's one of my, admittedly angry, but nonetheless poignant posts:

http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/64277

Pay close attention to the exchange between me and "jake_fehr", who
seems to think it is his God-given right to interfere with another
customer's request.

Bear in mind that the context at the time was Dell starting to
back-pedal, like they have been known to do in the past at Microsoft's
behest:

.----
| Kempin raises the possibility of threatening Dell and other PC
| builders which promote Linux.
|
| "I'm thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in the past with
| anti-Linux. ... they should do a delicate dance," Kempin wrote to
| Ballmer
`----
 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/03/19/microsoft_killed_dell_linux_states/

I was annoyed and frustrated, so the tone of that post was not very
endearing, but it was based on the documented evidence (above) and my
concern that this important development was going to be buried.

> To assume that these people are shills is paranoia to the nth degree.
> Do you believe these people are being paid to shill Windows?

See below.

> I don't see boycott this and boycott that messages and threads coming
> from the Windows users.

First of all, Windows users do not need to advocate "boycotting"
anything, since their OS already has the dominant position, and is not
being attacked on it's home turf by Shills, baseless patent infringement
allegations, OEM lock-ins, big budget political lobbying, "Get The
Facts" campaigns of disinformation, Microsoft sponsored "industry
studies" by supposedly impartial analysts, or so-called Journalists with
undisclosed conflicting interests.

Secondly, what you also "don't see" is Linux advocates invading
non-Linux groups and forums (accidental X-Posting aside) with
Anti-Windows rhetoric. The same cannot be said about Windows users and
their Anti-Linux rhetoric.

> Sure there are people shilling, but the average Windows user is too
> busy using the system to get over excited about it. Considering that
> Windows users outnumber Linux users greatly there seems to be a lot
> more noise coming from the Linux side of things.

People who are repressed need to shout louder.

> a comment against Linux must be from a shill.

(Ref: the "See below" comments)

The reason I, and others, make that claim, is a question of motive.

This is the Linux Advocacy group, so it is natural that the discussions
here will be pro-Linux, and anti-[Everything Else]. My motivation is to
promote Linux, demote the competition, and to defend it against
unwarranted attack ... *in this group*.

Anti-Linux posts in this group are such an attack, but the question is,
what motivates people to invade this group and poison it with
anti-Linux posts?

If I am interested in a certain topic, e.g. origami, and there is an
origami newsgroup, then I might be inclined to join that group and post
about that subject. But if I am *not* interested, why would I be
inclined to join that group and post anti-origami posts? What could
motivate such a person, esp. if they did so on a regular basis, with
ever more vicious attacks?

It is sabotage, vandalism, and highly suspicious behaviour for someone
to invade a group for something they don't like, and post spiteful
messages. It must take considerable time and effort to do this, so who
would expend such an effort to sabotage others interests? I can only
surmise that such a person would surely need to be financially motivated
... either that or mentally unstable.

> How do you explain the lack of people using desktop Linux which is
> free while Windows is expensive?

Ignorance and lock-ins, both perpetuated by the industry.

>>> Look at the Windows advocacy groups, they are dead.
>> 
>> The Windows advocacy group (singular) is dead because Windows
>> fanbois have nothing to advocate. They lost the technical argument
>> years ago, and so have resorted to sabotaging other groups with FUD
>> and MSFT stock prices.
> 
> That's a very obtuse way of looking at things. That group has always
> been dead fWIW.

Talking of obtuse, you need to do your research:

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy/about?hl=en

Interest in that group dropped dramatically in July 2001, and reached an
all-time low of just 3 posts in December 2006. It was, however,
extremely active for eight years.

> I've seen plenty of "Linux is great" messages posted in Windows 
> groups. How do you explain that?

Yes I've seen posts like that too, for those brave enough to mention
Linux in a hostile environment. They're usually stamped on. What is
there to explain?

>> AFAICT the only argument any Winvocate has left is a financial one,
>> droning on about how much money Microsoft fleeces from the
>> ignorant public; with broken games consoles, inept and insecure
>> Live services, their crap and laughable "iPod killer", and what
>> will undoubtedly go down in the history books as the worst computer
>> operating system ever devised - at a cost of six years and ten
>> billion dollars.
>> 
>> Oh yes - Windows advocacy is *certainly* dead.
> 
> Your post seems to indicate that you are everything you are accusing 
> these Windows shills of being, with the exception of the financials
> of course.

No, my post indicates that I am a Linux advocate, advocating Linux and
demoting the competition, in a Linux advocacy group. I am not invading
non-Linux forums/groups/threads/blogs with anti-Windows or pro-Linux
rhetoric, unlike the Trolls in this group, and Windows zealots elsewhere.

So ... what is *your* motivation ... for defending Windows Shills in the
Linux Advocacy group?

-- 
K.
http://slated.org

.----
| "Computer games don’t affect kids, I mean if Pac man affected us as
| kids, we’d all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills
| and listening to repetitive music." - Kristian Wilson, Nintendo
`----

Fedora release 7 (Moonshine) on sky, running kernel 2.6.21-1.3194.fc7
 00:55:57 up 27 days, 23:50,  5 users,  load average: 0.04, 0.15, 0.19

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